For those who have the ability to crush their own grain a suggestion I'd like to make is conditioning your grain with water before crushing. I have used this for normal batch sparging and full volume mashing and the mash seems to float very well.
Some claim better efficiency but I got basically the same but the run off was superb due to the way the grain was much more intact. Theoretically with BIAB that could be an advantage.
Method:
Get a spray bottle with water and spray the grains in your bucket. Mixing the grains around by hand until the grains just feel leathery and a few stick to your hand when you get a handful and squeeze. The grains only need to be damp not wet. Now leave the bucket of grain for about 20 minutes then mill.
The conditioned grain will be harder to put through your mill so if you intend to try this do a test run before a brew day with a couple of hundred grams of grain - just in case.
Post #2 made 10 years ago
Sorry Chiller. I don't understand the advantage. Can u explain please?
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
When you mill normally the husks can tend to shatter but when you condition the malt the mill tends to more gently squash the grain. Because of that the starch is still well exposed without smaller husk pieces.Lars wrote:Sorry Chiller. I don't understand the advantage. Can u explain please?
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I find it very helpful as I full volume brew with a traditional false bottom and because of the way the grain behaves when conditioned it tends to float more in the mash rather than compacting at the bottom. My speculation is that it will behave the same way in a bag.
It is just another weapon in our arsenal, worth trying once at least. What do they say, it will still make beer.
Steve
Last edited by chiller on 20 Mar 2014, 14:34, edited 1 time in total.
Post #4 made 10 years ago
Chiller,
January 24, 2013 - Milling Grain <- Show Date
The website below for lots of other subjects!
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
January 24, 2013 - Milling Grain <- Show Date
Streaming link -> http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/b/1/1b1d2dd ... 6dc3ca0bacChris Colby, editor of Brew Your Own magazine, explains the basics of getting the best crush of your grain for all grain brewing.
The website below for lots of other subjects!
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
Last edited by BobBrews on 20 Mar 2014, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
chiller is an old mate Lars from our BeerSmith2 beta testing days. He's a very interesting and skilled 'old dog'. I really loved chatting with him and am looking forward to another chat this weekend.
Back then in our BeerSmith2 beta days, he was three-vessel and so it is very exciting for me personally to see him full-volume brewing (albeit in two vessels) and posting here. I can't wait to show him all the things we have come up with here because I think he will see them straight away.
I remember chiller telling me about this grain conditioning a few years ago and it 'felt right' to me but I have never done it - always rushed now.
Lars, your question is great though and I love chiller's answer. Conditioning the grain can add only one, none or both of the following... Efficiency or quality.
chiller has said he has seen no improvement in what I assume is 'kettle efficiency' so let's look at quality...
Your grain is a vessel of sugar surrounded by wood. Just think about that for a second because I am getting tired of telling people not to crush fine.
Let's say the lignin / wood is crappy stuff full of tannins, which it is. Do you really want to grind that up and put it in your beer? THis site already advises against that here.
Imagine your grains as sugar cane. If you know what sugar cane is, you know you just want to bend it to release the sweetness. Break it and you'll get little.
To me, this grain conditioning allows you to bend the lignin rather than break it. Maximum sugar, least lignin/tannins,
PP
Back then in our BeerSmith2 beta days, he was three-vessel and so it is very exciting for me personally to see him full-volume brewing (albeit in two vessels) and posting here. I can't wait to show him all the things we have come up with here because I think he will see them straight away.
I remember chiller telling me about this grain conditioning a few years ago and it 'felt right' to me but I have never done it - always rushed now.
Lars, your question is great though and I love chiller's answer. Conditioning the grain can add only one, none or both of the following... Efficiency or quality.
chiller has said he has seen no improvement in what I assume is 'kettle efficiency' so let's look at quality...
Your grain is a vessel of sugar surrounded by wood. Just think about that for a second because I am getting tired of telling people not to crush fine.
Let's say the lignin / wood is crappy stuff full of tannins, which it is. Do you really want to grind that up and put it in your beer? THis site already advises against that here.
Imagine your grains as sugar cane. If you know what sugar cane is, you know you just want to bend it to release the sweetness. Break it and you'll get little.
To me, this grain conditioning allows you to bend the lignin rather than break it. Maximum sugar, least lignin/tannins,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Mar 2014, 20:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
That's a Great couple of analogies PP.PistolPatch wrote:
Your grain is a vessel of sugar surrounded by wood. Just think about that for a second because I am getting tired of telling people not to crush fine.
Imagine your grains as sugar cane. If you know what sugar cane is, you know you just want to bend it to release the sweetness.
PP
Makes perfect sense even to a newbie such as me. I have read elsewhere of other crushing grains with coffee grinders and food processors. Or even some recommending to run through the grain mill twice.
Obviously all wrong and in this case at least the old adage rings true - "less is more"
Last edited by bundy on 20 Mar 2014, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
In the case of conditioning grain for your crush, until you do it once and actually see what your crush looks like compared to a dry crush you can't appreciate fully the difference. We all know the volume of grain increases when we crush it, lets say about 5 - 10% but conditioned grain is possibly 15 - 20%. That's what I mean about "fluffy".
I have been known in the past to double crush and crush so fine it was scary
but all of those efforts gained very little if anything but with real reductions in other aspects of final quality.
Read the links and listen to the podcasts. Some believe it is worthwhile others don't. I'm one who believes for a full volume mash [BIAB] it definately is.
I have been known in the past to double crush and crush so fine it was scary
but all of those efforts gained very little if anything but with real reductions in other aspects of final quality.Read the links and listen to the podcasts. Some believe it is worthwhile others don't. I'm one who believes for a full volume mash [BIAB] it definately is.
Post #8 made 10 years ago
I often mill a day (or sometimes a few days) in advance, then seal in a bucket; so I'll make it a point to allow time for this on my brew day next time. I like the idea of it very much. Thanks for sharing!
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
Hi Rick,Rick wrote:I often mill a day (or sometimes a few days) in advance, then seal in a bucket; so I'll make it a point to allow time for this on my brew day next time. I like the idea of it very much. Thanks for sharing!
I'm not sure I'd wet condition malt, crush and store for a day or so. I see this as a do on the day method. For a lot of brewers it is a timing thing to have it ready when your water is ready.
Crushing the conditioned malt ahead of time may be fine but I'd be wary.
Last edited by chiller on 21 Mar 2014, 06:35, edited 1 time in total.
Post #10 made 10 years ago
chiller wrote:Hi Rick,Rick wrote:I often mill a day (or sometimes a few days) in advance, then seal in a bucket; so I'll make it a point to allow time for this on my brew day next time. I like the idea of it very much. Thanks for sharing!
I'm not sure I'd wet condition malt, crush and store for a day or so. I see this as a do on the day method. For a lot of brewers it is a timing thing to have it ready when your water is ready.
Crushing the conditioned malt ahead of time may be fine but I'd be wary.
This is exactly what I was implying in my last post!
Last edited by Rick on 21 Mar 2014, 07:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
Here is an article on crushing.
http://beerandwinejournal.com/walkthrough-ii/#more-2803
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http://beerandwinejournal.com/walkthrough-ii/#more-2803
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