Water Treatment

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nik
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Water Treatment

Post by nik » 7 years ago

Hello!
Recently while planing my new brews I considered to use some water treatment . I am convinced that is beneficial but as I read more I am getting more confused also.
As far as I read I 've understood that is a quite complicated subject and with wrong use you can end with disaster .
Have you any opinions or suggestions on that subject.


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Post by nik » 7 years ago

Thank yoy for your reply I have found several calculating worksheets like this.
I have found also these...
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html this is quite promising because it calculates the treatment needed based on the profiles given .
Also at "How to brew " chapter 15 are given some spreadsheets http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-3.html at the bottom of the page .
But I am still hesitated to try something.


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Post by dick » 7 years ago

G'day Nik - In case you didn't see it on a recent thread, here is a link to another discussion about water treatment. Hope it doesn't just confuse the situation more for you.

http://www.melbournebrewers.org/index.p ... Itemid=103

It might help if you be a bit more specific and tell us what your water is like and what will be going into your brew. :?:
Last edited by dick on 02 Nov 2010, 22:27, edited 5 times in total.


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Post by nik » 7 years ago

Thank you!!!!!!


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Post by nik » 7 years ago

+1
For the EZ water calculator.Thanks again for the tips.

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Post by wizard78 » 7 years ago

G'day biabrewers,
Since we are on the topic of water treatment :) I am brewing Lloydie's krispy kolsch and I read on the melbourne brewers link above that melbourne water is calcium deficient.
So that has got me on to a bit of water chemistry research, and I would like to know if anyone in the know could help me work out water additions.
I have found a water analysis chart and attempted to input data into ez water calculator and I have attached files.
Can someone in the know please have a look over the numbers and let me know your thoughts. :thumbs:
TIA
wiz :drink:
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Post by nik » 7 years ago

Alkalinity can be expressed as HCO3 multiplying by 1,22 the CaCO3 value and vice versa by dividing by 1,2.
So if the program we are using hasn't the ability to calculate results using both of the types we can convert to suit our needs.

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Post by wizard78 » 7 years ago

Sorry guys, yes I did do that conversion. I have a tendency to be reading through and changing things on the fly, then forgetting about it. However in this case the result should be the same :thumbs:
Thanks, I'm glad I'm on the right track :scratch: ..............hopefully!
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Post by Mad_Scientist » 6 years ago

I was using TH's ezwater spreadsheet before BIAB, so when I brewed my 1st BIAB last week I used it again. Today I read BobBrews post http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... &start=285 and listened to Kia about pH. I downloaded Kia's spreadsheet and entered my figures from my water report, etc. and found that it doesn't calculate for full liquor BIAB, went back to TH's and noticed his comment about it's inaccuracy above 2.4 qt/lb.

I use the ColorpHast pH strips. I guess that the Ez Water Calculator 2.0 still has some use in BIAB. Has anybody noticed a pH difference from this spreadsheet to the strips? More interestingly, anyone using a pH meter that has compared the two? I am not a REAL scientist :nup:

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 6 years ago

I got a response back from Kai Troester (his website is http://braukaiser.com) regarding his "water and mash pH spreadsheet". He said he will add the functionality for full liquor calculations, BIAB friendly.

He also said "The amounts of salt needed for a given pH shift should not change that much as the mash thickness changes. This is because the pH properties of the mash are largely determined by the malt and not so much by the water." I now have a warm and fuzzy feeling about continuing to use the EZ_water_calculator_2.0.


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Post by Michaelvw » 6 years ago

Cool! Did he say how long we'll need to wait for the updated spreadsheet to be BIAB friendly? Such an awesome spreadsheet, will trial it out on my next brew

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Post by Mad_Scientist » 6 years ago

These are his comments; http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2011/03 ... /#comments

I guess we'll have to keep checking for updates. It's at v1.52 now.


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Post by HbgBill » 4 years ago

I have two question.. but, only one to ask at the moment. The first is about fluoride in water and the second will be about my city water.

This question is.. Is there a problem with fluoride in water. What does it do to the taste, etc of brewing beer. My guess is nothing. In the US, as I understand, the max level it 2ppm. My city level is generally < 1ppm. During the last report published it was 0.89ppm.

I'll post a 2nd question about my city water profile in a separate post so as not to jumble answers.

Thanks for the feedback here.
Bill
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Post by joshua » 4 years ago

Good Day, Flouride is very Inert in water, and should stay in the water during the Boil.

It has almost NO taste, except in LARGE quanities.

Beside Some People "believeing" it causes Southern people to act retartded. it won't do anything to the Beer!
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Post by HbgBill » 4 years ago

My second question has two parts.. Also, apologies if it seems I'm being redundant as I asked a similar question a few days ago on pH. but w/o my water profile or planned brews.

1. How important is pH with relation to my tap water and grains as I get into BIAB? With the larger amount of water being used in a full boil BIAB vs typical mashing of about 1.5 qts water/#grain.. Do I need to adjust the brewing water?

2. My city water profile is as below.. but, how do you think I should adjust my water for:
a) American Ales.. both APA and IPA
b) Dry Stouts, Chocolate Stouts and probably American Style Porters

3. My city water profile for a few years with an average. I'm still not sure what the Hardness really is.. Some is permanent and some is temporary.. not sure what I have here.
(I'm sorry this didn't format better in the posting.. I tried :) )

Year: 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 5YrAvg

Alkalinity: 146 114 152 155 131 140

HCO3 178 136 190 192 158 171

Ca 30 23 27 26 20 25

Cl 7 6 7.5 8.8 8 7.5

Hardness 167 128 167 174 130 153

Mg 22.5 17 24 26 18.5 21.5

Na 8.8 9.3 9.4 10.6 8 9.25

SO4 16 13 15 18 18 15.5

pH 7.3 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.0 7.1

Sorry for so many questions.. But, I'm sure I will have a lot until I get a process down. Thanks for your patience...

Also, I've looked at some of the water calculators.. and I guess I'm not much at understanding it.. I'm more confused after going over them.. Brun Water, I guess is very good.. but, I can't understand it without a tutor :( I won't, for the foreseeable future, doing any more than these two general styles.
Last edited by HbgBill on 24 Feb 2013, 02:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by joshua » 4 years ago

HbgBill, The Alkalinity is pretty good, and the Permanet Hardness is a bit high, but not a big problem.

If your Using some DARK grains in the Mash, the Ph will be corrected, by the Grains.

If your Going with Pale Ales/Light Lagers, you may wany to add some acid(lactic, Malic, or Phosphoric) to get you into the low 5's.

Download a good "Water Calculator" at http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ and this spreadsheet should Help!!
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Post by HbgBill » 4 years ago

Thanks Joshua.. for answers to ALL the questions. I have a pH meter that is still virgin and will be getting some phosphoric acid soon.. but, in the meantime, I have some lactic acid. A bit leery about using it due to the added sweetness I understand it gives.. but, likely will not have to use too much.. so it may not be an issue.

I've also heard about acidulated malts. For the lighter beers, how do you think that would play into a grain bill. (I've only done extract w/grains to this point) My wife will be building me a grain bag sometime this weekend, I hope. My new kettle should arrive on Monday. :thumbs: And I'm currently in the process of building by brewing structure and storage sculpture. I'll take photos of that later.. Probably WAY overkill.. but, that's me.. Building a sparrow house out of 2x4's :dunno:

Oh, gee.. another question.. If I were to try to figure some of this on my own using EZ calc pointed out above. One of the inputs would be Mash and Sparge. If I'm not doing a typical mash or sparge.. How do I fill in those boxes for BIAB..?
Bill
Hop Song Brewing-Santa Rosa, California


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Post by joshua » 4 years ago

HbgBill, If you DO a "Maxi-BIAB", that is "Sparge". BIAB is the "Full Volume MASH" system. so click the Mash button.

If you use water to do a Sparge, you should adjust it for Ph also.
But you can make the "TOTAL water used" adjusted, then use some to mash, and some to sparge, and skip that Sparge button Completely

The Lactic acid Can sweeten the beer, a "very tiny" bit. "Lactose" is the Adjunct used to Sweenten the Beer ALOT.

Acidulated malts will lower the Ph, so there is information on each grain data sheet about how much will lower the Ph, per Volume, so you will have to look that data up.
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Post by Mad_Scientist » 4 years ago

I've started using this web based tool that Kia made, it closely matches the EZ spreadsheet. You can use it for free and you can keep up to 5 profiles [EDIT 3-20-2013; Without being a member]. If you join, your recipes will interface with it.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemi ... alculator/

I like the 'water target selection' and the 'source water, GH & kH water report'.

You can do your own home water testing and plug the numbers into the calculator; http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... er_testing

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